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New Neverside home page design screenshot New Neverside home page design screenshotWritten by AbsoluteCrossOn October 30th, 2006 08:09 AM in Community News Hello everyone! After much blood, sweat, and tears (ok maybe only the tears... that Simon can be slave driver I tell ya! kidding kidding). The following is a static image sample of the design that will go into the coding phase this week (the template itself has already been largely completed by our master codesmith, Simon Lilja - I refer here to the "contents" inside the template). Additional mockups for the Studio and other sections of the site are in the works as well, but the home page is one of the most complicated, due to the amount of data we want to make available in one place. The sample is hosted on AC since the neverdev.com domain is currently protected, and goodness knows where to store random files on the current neverside.com http://www.absolutecross.com/i/ns/ns_home_concept.jpg Old concepts: Though we've thought hard about the design, in terms of usability, features, aesthetics, etc - it would be our pleasure to hear and learn from your feedback and ideas. Please feel free to offer any ideas or critiques that come to mind, and we will consider them. And now, a few notes to explain some things that may not Welcome message "active community" The Learn More link The Navigate Sidebar block Studio Snapshots Layout width Additional sidebar items Tabbed content area Much more is also going on behind the scenes with our development and planning for the new Neverside, but I wanted to post this for everyone as soon as possible so you could have a look at least at some of what we're up to Anyhow, I hope you've enjoyed the preview, and if you have any ideas, comments, or critiques, we are looking forward to hearing them. Currently watching this post: 2 (0 members and 2 guests) Comments October 30th, 2006 08:23 AM bloody nice to see this bad boy up. As you know my thoughts, I would just like to say, rock on, Mr. Fuzzy! _____________________
October 30th, 2006 08:40 AM Slave driver? Me? If anyone is concerned with any kind of alignment that appears to be out of place or odd, don't worry. Small things like such will certainly be dealt with at the stage of assembly. Now get back to work! Oh yeah, and good work. Dave. :) _____________________ Neversidian, your staff is broken. October 30th, 2006 09:44 AM I freaking love the new design. Can't wait to see it up. I wish there weren't the ad but I know NS needs its money. Lookin' good! _____________________ October 30th, 2006 02:19 PM It feels a little cluttered, but maybe that?s just me any my design style. _____________________ People without self-doubt scare me.
October 30th, 2006 04:01 PM The design itself is very nice but the content, however, isn't so good. The text still has anti-aliasing on it too.. October 30th, 2006 05:09 PMThis is an image, produced in Photoshop. Text looks a lot better when it's actually rendered in a browser. Same goes for everything else, things will line up more properly once coded (most likely making it feel less cluttered). If you have any specific suggestions however, now would be a good time to speak up, while he's still working on this. _____________________ Neversidian, your staff is broken. October 30th, 2006 05:53 PM Glad to see an update. suggestion time: make the site 100%. Move the ads into the space next to the neverside logo. That should create more space and make things look less cluttered. Ads do not bother me but when they stick out like a sore thumb and make the design look worse than what it would with them not being their then I think it is an issue. Take a look at deviantart.com and learn some lessons. Ads dont have to sit in the middle of a design and stick out to earn you clicks. With the member support this site has I am sure no matter where the ads are placed you will still make money. Luke October 30th, 2006 10:18 PM One thing to help against ads might be a paid version, or if you refer like 5 people, you can get 100% no ads for a year or something. Just anidea that seems to be working in another forum I frequent. I don't know if I'd like the design if it were made 100%. I think most people using a computer these days want to get the best out of it, even people who've just turned it in for the first time. Keeping it 1024X768 IMO would be better than shrinking it and potentially making it worse for the people with a higher resolution. And considering this is a design/development community, I think probably over 90% of people here use at least 1024X768 res. Maybe make a poll asking what resolution people use normally. I can definately say this though, I think the new design looks DAMN sexy. _____________________
October 30th, 2006 10:27 PM I'd of preferred a dark theme, but nonetheless it looks okay. _____________________ Hello! :-) October 31st, 2006 12:06 AMLuke: Ads are not meant to be pity-clicked by members with the reason to earn the site money. That's an offense against the policy of any ad provider, and common sense. The header is reserved for other things, the ad wont end up in it, it has been discussed a lot already. _____________________ Neversidian, your staff is broken. October 31st, 2006 01:27 AMThank you very much everyone for your comments thus far In the mean time, here are a few responses/clarifications to what's been mentioned so far: - Google, Yahoo, and similar contextual text ads cannot have a custom background image. They can only have a solid background color. Contextual ads that are not properly integrated along the lines of Google's suggestions perform vastly more poorly, so non-integrated contextual ads are not an option. Ads can only successfully integrate into areas of solid color (no background images, gradients, etc). The ads on Neverside will not always necessarily be contextual text ads (they may be contextual images, or per-impression CPM ads, direct advertisers, etc), though when they are contextual text, they need to be integrated with the colors/backgrounds. - It was mentioned that we should model our ad placement on DeviantArt's ads... the Leaderboard ads at the top of DeviantArt are placed almost exactly as we have them on our sample. - A 468x60 banner is the only size available that would be able to fit inside the blue header area... CTR on this ad size is among the lowest possible due to years of built-up ad blindness in web users. A 728x90 Leaderboard would not fit in the blue area without further widening the layout (which would be fine, but this would break all possibility of compatibility for 800x600 users, which we hope to retain at least for several more years). The ideas have not been fully considered as of yet, but we also have other plans for how to use the space in the blue header area in a useful and tasteful way. - We do not encourage or desire members to ever click on any ads for any other reason besides authentic interest in what the ad offers - members should never click on any ads with the goal of showing support to our site, as though that might increase revenue for a short time, the end result would be the waste of advertiser's money, causing them to withdraw their ads permanently, and is also strictly against the policies of the ad providers. - A premium membership option will be available sometime in the near future. Among the other benefits of the membership, most if not all ads will be removed (including the top leaderboard). - Regarding the anti-aliasing of the text in the sample... as Simon mentioned, this is a preview from Photoshop, and the real text will be rendered correctly in the browser. It's my opinion (though possibly just due to the LCD screens and ClearType settings I use) that fonts in Photoshop that are set to "crisp" somewhat more closely (though imperfectly) represent how text is rendered in the browser on CRTs and LCDs + ClearType than by setting anti-aliasing all the way off, which renders them very harshly, like an LCD without ClearType enabled. - Having a 100% width option that members can choose is a possibility which we'll be happy to assess once our first "2.0" release is complete. If it is something enough people desire, we will make the effort to ensure it is an available choice. As I mentioned also, there is still room to expand the current "stop point" a bit more (the current width of 890px was chosen due to averages and ideas presented here and here - though it can definitely expand further if we'd like). We chose to pick a size to work with right now and not dwell on it, as everything can always be changed. If you would direct me to your favorite resources/links and discussions about fluid-width layouts so I can become more educated in this area, I would appreciate it. I've found some interesting ideas here, though not sure yet what they entail. Here are the top 10 resolutions for visitors to Neverside during the month of September. Numbers over a period of several months are approximately the same as well. 1024x768 ...... 42.43% _____________________ -- Dave
October 31st, 2006 02:15 AM I don't really know where to start here. The entire left navigation part looks, well, terrible. It doesn't flow with the rest of the site at all. Adding the rounded corners and then a divider between that and the real content makes it look like even more of a mess. Speaking of the left navigation part, it not only looks like crap, but it's absolutely useless. "Links"? "Navigate"?! To what?! Oh, you don't know... that's why the link says "Another Link". Gotcha. The ad placement is stupid. I have an idea to make it less obvious: why don't you make the background under it pink? Nobody will notice it then. You need a better content font. Maybe that one will look better once it's not anti-aliased, but as it stands, it's horrible. It looks so damn bad against the fonts in the header (which are excellent, by the way). There's no focus. I look at the page and my eyeballs go crazy. Everything is everywhere. You could start by removing the Neverside logo from under the content text, because there's so little contrast that it's impossible to read the text itself. Then try having just one news section, and just one studio submissions section. I mean, do you honestly need two of each? What kind of redundancy are we looking for here? People don't want to see that much content that many times, on the home page of all places. What's with the digg ripoffs at the bottom? The tabs (which aren't used anywhere else) look just like the ones on digg. Go ahead and compare them. And they're for the same purpose... news stories. Inspiration is one thing, but this looks exactly the same as digg. Go back to the drawing board here, seriously. Okay, so let's summarize what we've got here. First of all, there's no common style between any of the elements on the home page. Every section looks different, and every section looks bad. Second, it's so redundant and useless that it could probably be reduced to a single line of text that says "Hai, welcome to Neverside. Plz to be joining us? kthxbai." I hate to put it this bluntly, but it looks like ARSE. That is all. _____________________ <3 October 31st, 2006 03:17 AMThank you for your input. Though it would be more effective if presented in a constructive and less-abrasive manner, I will still try to observe your suggestions objectively. Where do you suggest the ads be placed? I've already outlined some of the reasoning for the current setup but am open to suggestions. The font for the content in the sample is Arial, and little customization has been done to the tracking, leading, etc... I did not expect any of my personally uneducated typography choices to carry on to the actual coded template, as that will be done by people with much more talent in this area than myself, such as Simon Lilja, Aeon Tan, Eric Keller, and others. One of the only absolute typographical descisions I have made is to abandon the use of justified text that is prevalent on the current NS. The ball needed to roll though, and this is a start. The tabs were not ripped off from Digg - in fact I rarely visit digg, and have never noticed their tabs. I was, in fact, inspired by a combination of the tabs on iStockPhoto, Firefox itself, and the guidance I read about tabs in the book Don't Make Me Think. I feel that the tab's rounded edges, and grayscale colors, fit into the concept of the rest of the site - though any improvements would be welcome. Perhaps I haven't taken concious notice of enough other ways to make tabs as I've browsed around the internet, but in my mind this just seemed the natural way to do it. The Sidebar could potentially use improvement, and any specific ideas you have would be appreciated. I also am iffy myself on the boxes around the blocks of Sidebar content, as they worked "better" in a previous iteration of the layout, but may best be replaced for this version. Any/all specific items currently shown in the Sidebar are not necessarily for the Home page at all, but were added to illustrate their concept in general for other areas throughout the site. My apolgies if I wasn't clear on that. For instance, the News and Navigate blocks, and likely the Studio Snapshots, would not be shown on the home page - those blocks are to ensure distribution of important infomation and content throughout other sections of the site (in contrast to Neverside as it is now, where I often hear about news never being noticed, under-representation of the Studio, etc). Anyhow a few things I'd love to have specific feedback on: Again, thank you for taking the time to offer your opinions. _____________________ -- Dave
October 31st, 2006 03:48 AMWow Noel, Harsh. But anyway, as it currently stands and without completely wiping this off and starting from scratch, I would work a bit more on fluidly integrating the side bar with the rest. Maybe take away the vertical divider? When I look at the template, I see everything fine. I jump from section to section where my interest is being peaked at. If I want to look at the bottom, I go to the bottom. The side attracts me first because of all the color but that is it. _____________________
October 31st, 2006 10:59 AM"Speaking of the left navigation part, it not only looks like crap, but it's absolutely useless. "Links"? "Navigate"?! To what?! Oh, you don't know... that's why the link says "Another Link". Gotcha." The words used there are examples as far as has been told thus far as to a picture example of what it could look like, not the content that will actually be incorporated. Therefore, it's not useless until it has been released. "The ad placement is stupid. I have an idea to make it less obvious: why don't you make the background under it pink? Nobody will notice it then." The ads are a hassle, however, I don't think unconstructive sarcastic criticism will help these issues... "You need a better content font. Maybe that one will look better once it's not anti-aliased, but as it stands, it's horrible. It looks so damn bad against the fonts in the header (which are excellent, by the way)." The content font is fine for the most part, and it will look better once used as actual text, although I'm all for using as few fonts as possible... "There's no focus. I look at the page and my eyeballs go crazy. Everything is everywhere. You could start by removing the Neverside logo from under the content text, because there's so little contrast that it's impossible to read the text itself. Then try having just one news section, and just one studio submissions section. I mean, do you honestly need two of each? What kind of redundancy are we looking for here? People don't want to see that much content that many times, on the home page of all places." The text is big enough to read, even if it's a grayish color, and the contrast is almost as good as black on white, however since the design is more of a grayish one for the content ares, I think it suits it well. Redundancy = due to the fact that it's an example(not the final product) -_- "What's with the digg ripoffs at the bottom? The tabs (which aren't used anywhere else) look just like the ones on digg. Go ahead and compare them. And they're for the same purpose... news stories. Inspiration is one thing, but this looks exactly the same as digg. Go back to the drawing board here, seriously." Aside from the fact that those tabs look nothing like digg's, the rounded beveled glasss looking buttons have been used many times in many designs. It's a design that is popular, and that works well. Otherwise places like digg wouldn't use em. I think they look a lot better than digg's, as it just fits more perfectly with the design. It may be kind of busy, but time will test that once it's been released. "Okay, so let's summarize what we've got here. First of all, there's no common style between any of the elements on the home page. Every section looks different, and every section looks bad. Second, it's so redundant and useless that it could probably be reduced to a single line of text that says "Hai, welcome to Neverside. Plz to be joining us? kthxbai." I hate to put it this bluntly, but it looks like ARSE." The 3 column positioning of the layout DOES have a common style, although the columns themselves are different than one another, used for different things... I will end this post by bluntly saying the design looks spectacular. Keep up the good work. _____________________
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.... ah hem where was I? The time has come for our mockup/sample design of the new Neverside home/main page to make its way into the spotlight.
